Upholding the practices with Elena Brower
Women + Wellbeing Interview #7
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“…[I]f we can transform that obstacle—that belief that we have to “be good,” or we have to be a certain way, a certain level of quiet, a certain level of shy, a certain level of holding back from who we actually are, for whatever reason, in our family of origin or in the current moment, some work, boss, some construct that we've agreed to—if we can transform it, if we can surmount it, if we can walk through it, I think there's something really important here in this conversation for women, no matter what age we are.”
~Elena Brower
Do I have a treat for you today!
This is the seventh installment of the Women + Wellbeing interview series. Today’s interview is with Elena Brower, author of
. I first became aware of Elena Brower in my early yoga days when I started practicing yoga online with Glo (formerly YogaGlo). I’ve continued to follow her work over the years and have always found inspiration in her approach to teaching and being.She’s one of those teachers that calls out the best in you, not because she’s telling you what to do or how to be but because she invites you to do the inquiry, to go inside, to be brave, to explore, to be open, to release judgement, to do the work. Her work speaks to me, whether it’s through her yoga classes on Glo, her writing and poetry on Substack or in her books, or her artwork. Her commitment to service is admirable and she’s just a cool human being.
I am truly honored to have had the opportunity to speak with Elena and to share our conversation with you here today. Savor this one. So much wisdom.
Meet Elena Brower
Mother, mentor, poet, artist, volunteer, bestselling author and host of the Practice You Podcast, Elena Brower graduated Cornell University in 1992, designed textiles and apparel for almost a decade before shifting her focus to yoga, meditation, writing and art. Teaching asana since 1999, studying and practicing Zen meditation since 2020, she received the Buddhist Precepts from Roshi Joan Halifax at Upaya Zen Center in 2023. Now a candidate for Buddhist Chaplaincy, Elena offers her time in hospice and penitentiary settings as well as facilitating grief counseling for children and families. Her books walk us through stages of practice, life and listening. Elena's Perceptive Parenting audio course is a key resource for parents; her signature course Simplify serves hundreds in reimagining priorities in order to experience more meaning every day, and she's also the founder of free global podcast The Matter of Menopause.
Her weekly live yoga practices and meditations are featured on Glo; her spoken word poetry can be heard on Above & Beyond's Flow State albums, for which she's received an RIAA-certified Gold Record for her writing on "Don't Leave." Elena works to elevate bright futures for girls, women and children through her support for Girls on Fire Leaders, On The Inside and Free Food Kitchen.
Be sure to subscribe to Elena’s Substack
for poetry, yogic wisdom, art, and poignant observations from real life.
The Interview
ASHLEY ZUBERI: What does wellbeing mean to you and how has it changed, if at all, throughout your life?
ELENA BROWER: Gosh, it's changed so many times. I think it changes monthly, weekly. I'm almost 54. My son just graduated high school and he's heading off to college. I really thought that I would just be as cool as a cucumber. And in fact, it's actually really sad. I'm going to miss this dude.
Wellbeing now feels like a capacity to be adaptive and to pivot at a moment's notice according to what is needed. Whether that's an outward need in my family—what does my kid need, does he need me to step in or does he need me to step the hell out? Or a need with myself inwardly—what do I need and can I respect it enough to deliver? That's really what wellbeing means right now to me.
ASHLEY: Do you think that there's a difference between health and wellbeing?
ELENA: I think health is a natural result, a symptom of wellbeing. If I am listening well to myself, if I am upholding my practices—my sitting practice, my tea practice, my movement practice, strength training, as well as yoga and hiking—wellbeing naturally arises. And as a result of that health emerges naturally.
ASHLEY: You just gave us a great list. What are your go-to wellbeing practices?
ELENA: I think strength training is top of the list—making sure that muscle is being built at this time rather than being depleted. The second would be definitely maintaining and sustaining flexibility. That's where the yoga practice comes in. I'm still thoroughly enjoying creating two classes a week for Glo. Walking long distances with weight—carrying my pack as a part of training for my first backpacking trip recently—has now become kind of an obsession.
I also have a weekly acupuncture practice. I have a daily nidra practice. And of course, my meditation practice, which is number one on the list. Starting and finishing the day with a time to reflect and feel into what is going on. What's important? What is the priority? What can I do here? Given the information that I have, how am I going to approach this very delicate moment in my family, or with a friend, or with one of the people that I'm working with in hospice?
ASHLEY: How do you make time for all of this?
ELENA: I just really carefully schedule myself. I think my best work is contained in two different courses that I have. The first is Perceptive Parenting and that's a story for another day. But the second is called Simplify and the first module in that course is very simple. The first module asks you to look at your schedule. What’s on my schedule? Is there a purpose? Was this out of necessity or out of obligation? Why is this still on my schedule? How do I clear the way to what I know to be true about what's important to me? How do I go back to a sense of simplicity that I haven't known in some time? That’s where it begins in terms of finding the time for the things that matter to you.
If you have little kids, it's going to be a minute. But they will get older and you will have more time. You will wonder, as I have, if and where you squandered that time with them. That's a natural part of life. But that's how I find the time for such things.
ASHLEY: I always feel like setting boundaries is one of the most important yoga practices. Why is it so hard for women to be well?
ELENA: You know, this is an old story. And I would recommend that women read
’s latest book, On Our Best Behavior: The Seven Deadly Sins and the Price Women Pay to Be Good.ASHLEY: Oh, I love it.
ELENA: I think it's important for women to know that not only are you not alone in this sort of quest to figure this out for yourself, but it is so ancient. It is so much a part of our light as women, and our task as women, to set it up for the next generation. I'm seeing my son's friends, some of whom I've become pretty close with, and they're 17, 18 years old, and they too have a a sense of, “But it has to be this way, doesn't it? I have to feel like I'm doing something for other people, don't I?” It's a very interesting quandary. So I'm interested in that because I feel if we can transform that obstacle—that belief that we have to “be good,” or we have to be a certain way, a certain level of quiet, a certain level of shy, a certain level of holding back from who we actually are, for whatever reason, in our family of origin or in the current moment, some work, boss, some construct that we've agreed to—if we can transform it, if we can surmount it, if we can walk through it, I think there's something really important here in this conversation for women, no matter what age we are.
ASHLEY: When you say “being good” or even “being well,” people have these preconceived notions of what that means. We're all trying to get to this ideal same place when in fact it's so individual to each of us.
I want to ask about something that I find really interesting about your work. Whenever you teach, whenever I read your work, you always offer such a depth of inquiry, which I really appreciate. At the same time, I was listening to your podcast the other day and there's also the reality of sponsors—there are things in our world. One of the ways that I first met you was through Pangea Organics and these beautiful, wonderful organic skincare products. I love all those things too. I love the essential oils and everything, but those aren't the end-all-be-all of wellbeing. I want to ask you about that balance in your own life between these depth practices where you're sitting with yourself going inward and cultivating a sense of wellbeing but then also finding things in your life that make you happy or that also feel luxurious. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that balance.
ELENA: Thank you. It's a great question. And it's one that I've been working with my whole life. I had to support my son and myself and I had to earn money to make that a reality. And I basically have spent all this time aligning myself with products, in the case of the podcast sponsors, that I actually use. I get pitched all the time in my inbox. And I just won't align myself with something that I don't actually use. Period. Full stop. So I have a very small handful of sponsors for the podcast. I don't earn money on the podcast. Money goes to editing, and it's a wash, but I love the work.
I love what I'm learning, I'm researching these guests and writers. I’m so enriched by the process of my research, my reading, my formulating questions, and my asking them. I'm cool with it until I'm not. At some point that will end too, everything comes to an end. And when it comes to other businesses with which I've been involved, Pangea Organics was founded by my best friend. I knew the space and I was really excited to help my friend get Pangea to more humans. I still use it. It's at every sink and there's no stopping my use of that product.
I have a whole business with doTERRA and the oils are with me always. I just went on my first backpacking trip and the oils were critical. The peppermint for bugs, tea tree when I got a couple of infected little abrasions. I had lavender, which I threw on our pillows at night. I had clove in case anybody got a toothache, which I actually ended up needing. I had geranium for my skin. Every time I wash my face, I put geranium on it. And that also kept the bugs away. You know, there are a handful of things that I don't leave home without. I'm pretty serious about it.
And since I use those products, I still feel comfortable selling them because I know they're only going to be an enhancement to the households that take them on. I have a kid who uses them every day, who's taking them to school. That was my dream.
ASHLEY: That's awesome. Thank you for sharing how you balance that. How does writing factor into your wellbeing practices?
ELENA: Early morning after I sit, sometimes before if I'm honest. Sometimes I wake up and I'm so full of an idea that I can't move, I can’t sit before I write. I need to write. Sometimes it's really hard.
My mind is most clear in the early morning. I’m in the middle of finishing the last two chapters of the book that's coming out next year. It's a beautiful blend of everything that I've done so far. This is the first time I'm going to be a little more autobiographical and tell some stories of my life, my spiritual formation, and my art. I'm nervous and I'm also really excited. I know when I'm nervous, that's a great sign.
ASHLEY: I can't wait to read it. It'll be amazing. You have a free online summit called The Matter of Menopause. I’ve watched menopause become this hot topic in the past five years or so. I've noticed so many of my yoga teachers are reaching this point in their own lives and are turning around and starting to talk about it. I think that's wonderful and absolutely needed. I'm curious if you can speak of your own experience and how yoga specifically supported you, if at all, through that transition?
ELENA: That's a great question. I have to be honest about this. I consulted with my doctor, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. She's the author of a book called Forever Strong, she has a great podcast, and she’s a big proponent of yoga and of protein. When I turned about 47 I started saying, “You know, I'm feeling like something is happening. I’m having an experience of the beginnings, the little hints, of pre-menopause coming.” And she said, “The first thing I want you to do, Elena, is just start building muscle so that you can have a site in your body where glucose can be processed.” Because if you don't, it gets into your bloodstream, it starts to degrade your arteries and all the systems, including your body's capacity to think, your brain's capacity to stay elastic and young. And that really made an impression. I started working out at that time. And I think that was the best thing I could have done, honestly.
ASHLEY: I'm in such agreement on the importance of strength. There aren't enough Chaturangas that you could do to build the strength that you actually need. We have to go outside of our standard asana practice for that type of strength.
ELENA: Yeah. I think that the most important thing that I did was just listen to that girl and do the thing she suggested. I feel like I didn't really have such a “market experience” of menopause. I had a few months of mild experiences of heat and mood that my family noted and I noted. As I got more and more regular with lifting everything changed. It's not like I'm building giant muscles here, but I'm building bigger muscles than I had. Those little experiences of menopause really abated significantly as I continued with the strength training.
I think the asana really is an adjunct and an important part, but not the only part, to sustaining and maintaining a comfort in menopause.
ASHLEY: Thank you for sharing that experience. Is there anything else that you want to add about wellbeing, women, our paths in general?
ELENA: Yeah. A friend of mine texted me and she said, “My kid is asking about death and I don't know how to explain it to her. I told her that the dog died and is going with God.”
Something about this really struck me. I said, “From the moment my kid was very small and able to talk, I would always just tell him the truth.” And I invited her to get really intimate with the concept of impermanence.
What does that mean to you? What does it mean in a flower, a blade of grass that lasts for one summer? What does it mean in the life of an insect? The lifespan of a plant, a person, a grandmother that you loved? And I think what I would say, if you're reading this as a woman of any age, is to get very comfortable with the fact of impermanence. Know that the relationship will end, the life will end, the meal will end, the party will end, the beautiful space you've created for your meditation that you love so much will end. Everything comes to an end. The sooner we get comfortable with that, particularly as women, the easier it is to enjoy every single moment of this life.
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Beautiful Ashley!